Monday, October 12, 2009

Creationizm in school?

I do beleave i asked this once before back in august but im asking again because this topic has showed up on my old highschools school board meetings.(there always so much fun...>.< not!) If Evolution is aloud to be taught in school why cant creationism be taugh also. its like the teachers say before they begine the lesson on evolution. "you dont have to beleave i just gotta teach it" if thats the case why cant they teach creationism too? Some Call Creationism a science others a religion...the same goes for evolution.... no one is saying the teacher is has to give his personal opinion on the subject. and no one is saying the kids have to beleave it eithor so why is it that to this day it is still not taught in our school systems?

"They took your comandments off the school house walls. they say its a crime to even pray within the halls. but bless the child that lets you in and knows with out a doubt. once you live inside a heart they cant take you out!"

45 comments:

  1. I personally do not have a problem with evolution being taught in high school, as long as it is confined strictly to science. When it trespasses into the realm of philosophy, then we have social Darwinists like Spencer, Jung, and Nietzsche who most say evolution necessitates a disbelief in God, which is intellectual bias at its worse. In terms of Creationism being taught in high school, I have a problem with the "christening" of the classroom, and Creationism is a mode of this. Creationism, Intelligent Design, etc., should be mentioned as alternative options to evolution. All knowledge should be objectively presented, but when we have teachers claiming evolution should discredit Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and Taoism, that's when it gets complicated.

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    1. It is not the teacher's problem that the scientific information that he/she is providing happens to contradict an illogical belief. We teachers should not have to be concerned about eroding a students faith if that faith is inconsistent with reality.

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    2. I think that in a science classroom, teachers should not engage in philosophical debate or discussion, only fact and topics relevant to the lesson and curriculum. If a teacher is teaching evolution then only the facts of evolution should be taught, at no point should any contradictions between religion and scientific theory be discussed. However, if people are somehow offended by the mention of facts that contradict their particular religion, but religion was not a topic that was discussed, then this is wrong because children should not be censored from scientific FACT. If this fact happens to contradict religious beliefs then it is up to the children themselves to draw their own conclusions. After all, science is fact and religion is faith. You can choose faith but you can't choose fact.

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    3. i think evolution should be taught it is a fact but creationism shouldn't be taught school is a place of learning not to teach myth unless your in history class where religion has affected the world but science class or in other class no until creationism has some evidence to support its case then no all because its a unfalsifiable hypothesis (which means it can't be disproven) doesn't mean its fact science class isn't supposed to teach every crazy minded hypothesis out there

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  2. I also don't mind it being taught in the schools, because we can't just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.
    I do believe that Creationism should be strongly discussed (I'm obviously pro-Creationism), but evolution should also be discussed because it's important to know other sides.

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  3. I believe creationism should be taught in schools (Why not teach the truth?), but unless something drastic happens it is just never going to happen. Too many people don't see it as the truth and would raise too big a stink for anyone in charge to be willing to even suggest it. I do have a problem with macro-evolution being taught in school, it's complete bunk and bad science.

    As you can see I'm rather heavily biased on this subject however, and anyone could use my basic arguements only switching the places of creationism and evolution. Even though I can defend my views and positions, that doesn't mean others have to accept them though. So it's obvious that some sort of compromise between the two sides is going to have to do; as now one side has all the say and I'm complaining, but if my side had all the say then the other side would be complaining.

    Basically I'm saying I grudingly admit that what would be most workable is some sort of compromise, though I'm not sure what the compromise would be.

    A longer term, more ambitious goal would be for Christians in America to start speaking out more and boldly and faithfully spread God's word so that, God willing, it wouldn't be an issue anymore and the majority of people would accept Christianity as the truth. The reason to do that certaintly wouldn't just be so creationism would be taught in schools however, and that should be our goal anyway, accept the in the world not just America.

    Whoops, sorry I wrote a lot.

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  4. BTW you guys like the pictures?

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  5. Because creationism is a religious belief, and biology is a science class. Literally tens of thousands of scientific studies, papers, etc. have been conducted to provide extreme evidence of evolution, surpassing or meeting the evidence required to support other scientific theories, such as jet propulsion, the makeup of the sun, etc. As creationism cannot provide testable evidence for its position, and because the idea of a god creating all things from nothing essentially equates to magic in the scientific sense, there is no reason to teach creationism in biology classes. Since, as a nation, we have decided that our public schools should be secular, in that they espouse no religious beliefs in their teachings in order to allow each student to seek their own religious or un-religious path without being influenced by "the state," you can't have creationism slipped in there as an alternative to a secular study of life on the planet. Further, evolution merely describes how life changed after it came into existence, while creationism describes how life came into existence, so the two aren't really comparable. Abiogenesis is the scientific theory that most directly counters creationism, and that isn't studied in high school biology.

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    1. well then, if creation is "magic" what does evolution say the "First cause" is, and do not say the big bang, because I want to know where you think what ever blew up cam from

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    2. Evolution doesn't even try to explain a first cause. It is simply an explanation as to the diversity of life.

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  6. Wow, I couldn't even read all of the comments without trying not to vomit. Creationism should never be taught in schools. It's not science and should only be taught in the home. As soon as the government allows creationism to be taught in school they acknowledge the fact that it is true and the government can not do that.

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  7. Creationism is not science just because your bible says it is true does not mean it is. Evolution is based in science it is a theory yes but I think many ppl don't know what theory means. The word theory, when used by scientists, refers to an explanation of reality that has been thoroughly tested so that most scientists agree on it. It is not just some shit someone made up like creationism is.It is based in science and should be taught.

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  8. Evolution is science, and should be taught as science. Creation belongs in religious classes.

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  9. There is a difference between science and religion. Science is composed of Laws and theories which try and explain HOW things work. Such theories are based in tangible evidence agreed upon by ALL the sciences. Religion, on the other hand, is composed of beliefs and faith in things that are intangible. Religion seeks to answer the question of WHO created things, and unfortunately there is no evidence that is supported by ALL religions. Children have a right to their own beliefs and practices in their religion; Schools do not have the right to choose which belief system to teach, so they teach none of it and leave that to your pastors and priests.

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  10. Bc creationism has no science to back it up. That is why those trying to get this garbage taught refuse to go through the scientific process it takes to get anything taught in school. They refuse to us any credible resources for their information and it is obviously just an agenda driven attempt by christians to force more of their religion in public schools.

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  11. Creationism should be *mentioned* in schools. It is a credible belief held by billions of people including numerous scientists, and other highly educated people. Science still has many unexplained problems with the origin of the universe, and even if they are solved, it will not prove creation incorrect. However, unlike evolution, there really isn't that much detail to go into. If you go into one particular myth or other, then you are teaching religion, which, even as a Christian, I don't much like. So, my basic policy on this would be to teach evolution in detail, point out its flaws along with its benefits, and say:

    "Many people believe that some higher power is responsible for all of this, either by kicking it all off, or by helping it along, or even by building everything in situ and saying 'go.' These beliefs are usually religious in nature, but have some scientific basis, mostly turning on the idea that the Earth is too complex, and the odds of evolution yielding such an earth are astronomical without guidance, which is itself a fiercely debated point."

    And that would be all that I would teach on Creationism. There really isn't much more to say when the theory is basically "God did it, because he could." True or not, it's a pretty short lesson, unless you adopt a specific religion, and then hold the whole debate, which no side can ever win.

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  12. Creationism is a religious idea. Religious ideas should never be taught in the public classroom. This country was founded on the idea of the separation between church and state and thats a good thing. Take a look at other countries that do not have this separation. Mostly the mid-east countries. Creationism has a hidden social agenda and presents itself as science when it clearly is not. Evolution does not have these agendas. Sure evolution might causes religious questions to arise and this scares many christians. why? Because the evidence supporting it is completely overwhelming. Creationism doesn't make any true scientific claims. There must be evidence of any claims made. evolution can do this creationism can not.

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  13. It is unlawful for the government, or a government agency/ or its workers, to display an endorsement for any religion

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  14. Frankly, creationism, or whatever it's called this year, is not science. Religious people in particular, and U.S. citizens in general, have an unbelievably deficient knowledge of basic science. Thus a theory becomes an opinion, and humans evolved from monkeys, a statement that is STILL prevalent on the christian right. Teach religion in a philosophy class, not in a science class. Literally, genesis is an opinion, and a pretty pathetic one completely at odds with reality.

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  15. To understand why we cannot teach creationism we need to understand what science is. For something to be considered in science it has to go through the scientific method. In a nut shell, in the scientific method, you form a hypothesis, test the hypothesis with experimentation, then form conclusions validating or falsifying your hypothesis. When you work in a laboratory, your goal is to make a hypothesis, test it, then publish your findings in a scientific journal. When you try to publish, the findings have to go through a rigorous process of peer review. In other words, other scientists review your findings and make sure it isn't bull shit. After it is published, it is set for the world to see. The science presented is based on evidence supporting a hypothesis. It has followed through the scientific method and is considered science. To understand why creationism is not science we need to understand what it is. Creationism is the belief that everything was created in its present form by an intelligent being. It requires "faith" in questionable documents that were created thousands of years ago by people. Creationism is based on faith. Faith defined from dictionary.com is defined as "belief that is not based on proof". Because creationism is faith based and therefore not based on evidence, it does not follow the scientific method and cannot be considered as science. This doesn't mean that religion cannot be taught in schools historically, but it cannot be used to explain nature and classify itself as science. If you want to talk more you can email me at blackshadoww5@yahoo.com

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  16. Well the difference between creationizm and evolution is that evolution has been proven, and that we know for a fact that creationizm isn't real. But I still think that it should be tought in school, just like we also learn about other failed theories, such as lamarck evolutionteori.

    Since i know someone is probaly gonna say "how is it proven?", and well to put it simple most of living life on earth has the exact same dna-structure(including the chemical compound) and for that exact one to happenn at just one being is extremely little, and for it to happen at so many is just impossible to be a coincidence.

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  17. Hun, no theism is a science and evolution is not a religion. Micro-evolution has been proven. We've watched, key word "watched" germs and viruses evolve. Macro-evolution (the theory that multicellular being like us evolved from somewhere and are still evolving) is just on a larger scale. It's a science because we can constantly use evidence and research to challenge it and see if it's real. If it doesn't hold up, and people can recreate why it didn't hold up, then it's garbage science and thrown away. If people can't recreate it in anyway shape or form then it can't be proven. However, with macro-evolution there is strong evidence supporting, the only evidence that harms it is that we don't have all the chapters of human evolution. Human evolution is like an old book that got torn up and thrown in the wind. We've found some of the pages but we are missing some middle chapters. With religion, it has no halmark and restudy to test it. It's ALL faith, and the little that says it's true (the bible) can be disproven using timelines in the bible and what they said was fact. It says in the bible that the Earth is flat and on a fixed point. That is disproven and false. It says that the Earth is 6000 years old, we have papers dating back farther then that; it is disproven and false. So the reason why the founding fathers made it so clear that religion and government should never go together, is that religion doesn't have the factual, evidence based merits it takes to make it in the real world. And also, do you want a theology for a government? Cause America made Iran one and look how lovely that is. You said that people don't know if it's a science or religion, they are plainly not the same hun. Keep religion out of the schools.

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    1. Science doesn't make the distinction between micro and macro evolution.. I know we are on the same team here but scientifically one being true means the other is true.. if small changes take place within a decade or so, big changes arise over millions of years.. this is fact. Also under the creationists definition of macro evolution we have witnessed this as well. In various life forms. Don't play into their propaganda.

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  18. Crap made some typos that mess up what I was going for in some parts.
    Stuff like recreate why it didn't hold up should have been why it "did" hold up.
    If you see stuff like that that blatantly contradicts what I said you know why now.

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  19. There are several key difference between evolution and creationism; evolution is, quite simply, fact. Evolution refers to things changing over time to adapt to different environments. Creationism is an opinion backed up by no scientific evidence whatsoever, and the arguments for it consist mostly of, "Well, you can't prove it wrong." I have nothing against people believing what they believe, but when the education system intends to indoctrinate future generations away from what is clearly and obviously true, then something is afoot. Natural selection, or survival of the fittest, is not evolution. It is a method of evolution, which is currently our best guess of how evolution works. It's backed up, universally, by renowned chemists, biologists, physicists. It doesn't take a genius to understand that what has been proven scientifically should be overcome by what is no more than an opinion. The day creationism is taught in schools will be the day I lose faith in humanity.

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  20. Well the thing is, why people can "Call" both a science and religion, that does not make them both equally science or religion. Our country was founded on secular principles that say the government can not endorse a religion. People simply calling something a science or a religion does not effect what they actually are. Belief in a god or gods is precisely not science. And the very definition of god includes a powerful intelligence and most said to have created the universe. This makes creationism or intelligent design an inherently religious idea. It can not be proven to be true or proven to be untrue because of the supernatural nature of the intelligence. People say it is tested because we can "see" creation in the world around us yet we see wonderful things and terrible things. Creationists tent to ignore the evidence against design and science just doesn't ignore evidence. Further more even if you could show that things are perfect and in ur mind that shows creation.. it is a fallacy to draw that conclusion. Things being perfect would in no way rule out any possibility of natural selection. You have to prove the claim u are making not say "this is the only explanation I can imagine" Because it does not matter what you can or can not imagine it matters what can be demonstrated to be true. So lets look at evolution. Evolution is a very well supported theory, 95% of scientists around the world accept evolution to be true, a decent portion of them are religious. That is just about as good of a consensus as you are going to get. Now consider that the 5% that does not accept evolution all believe in a creator, they have a bias.. and if that isn't enough for you, most of them live in America and 2% admit they became scientists TO DISPROVE evolution.. they started out believing it was false to begin with. now I know this is a controversial issue and I don't mean to offend.. But when we are teaching science in a science class the goal is not to teach what is accepted by the public..

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  21. it isn't to give a democratic opinion. When we teach science we are supposed to be representing the consensus of our scientists. We give the students the theories and evidence that the last 200 years of rigorous testing and peer review has turned up. The current scientific consensus can be wrong of course it can, but the current scientific consensus is the most accurate, most complete collection of facts and explanations of the world around us we as humans have ever had. That is why it is important to show what science really thinks. If the world's scientists were really at odds about evolution then we would teach that it is a debated theory much like we tell them "String theory" is. We do not pose a different idea and say the two are on the same par unless the two are actually considered equally plausible among scientists.. not among the general public.. To be scientifically honest we can not put creation on the same level as evolution because it does not reflect the views of science. The name and respect of science holds with it an extremely heavy burden of proof. Evolution has met and exceeded its burden with decades of people trying to prove it wrong and have their own theories replace them.. that is religious and non religious theories.. but no one has disprove it and a mountain of evidence collected over these decades stands in its favor. This is the way a theory gets to be taught. This is the way a theory is given factual status, not the people in the general public claiming that they are the same because they like their theory better.. Science does not have a bias. The best a scientist can hope to do is change the current consensus on something big, make a name for themselves. That is why so many scientists have challenged and re challenged all of our theories that have been around for a while including evolution.. Because that would make their career. When the intelligent design theory could not meet its burden of proof based on the standard science holds it petitioned the religious community to take up their cause and try to legislate its way into being taught with evolution.. No scientific theory has ever been accepted by the scientific community bc the general public thought it was better than their theory and nothing has been forced into the class room by people who are not even in the field, it hasn't even been seriously purposed until now when it comes to religious beliefs.. That is the problem here. The majority of Americans are religious and teach their children to be.. and that is fine but it is absolutely immoral to try to insist your religion should be held to the same standard of science and taught to everyone's children as equally valid.. You don't get to bypass science's rules by simply calling evolution religion or creationism science.. its just not the case.

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  22. I could not read past "aloud" because I was afraid my brain would shut down from all the mistakes. Not to say I won't make mistakes in this comment. Either way, I feel like I should state that we should teach what we can prove first. We also have a duty as evolving humans, or just humans, to learn from our ancestors, especially science and history(the actual history, not what got passed off as history). This government was made to protect religious freedom, and all the other good stuff. This government also provides education. In my opinion, government and religion do not mix since I feel government gave religions freedom and protection. Education should not be oppressed by religions, which religions claims it is being oppressed although they can still freely practice their beliefs with their children. Earlier, I stated humans have a duty and government should follow that duty even though people may feel it goes against their religion. As I see it, most people don't follow their own religion so Y U MAD when I want the best for your child in this life while you guide your child to the best in the afterlife, if your religion has an afterlife. And this is where I vent a little, I do apologize as I am figuring stuff out and we can all be wrong about everything: You can still corrupt your children's future and set them up for a life of mediocrity because they will have a fallacious view of the world as they do not appreciate or understand in this life as they are expecting great in the next one. What sickens me is that they may be loud, proud, and ignorant when it comes to humanity or respect of others. They will claim their god is the only one when there are like 2780 gods pray and not do(pretty sure god would not like that), give their hard earned money to the church that barely does any good with it, affect peoples freedom because their religion does not approve, thank god when the doctors, good people, etc. put in the work to save lives or do good, the ego that god answered their prayers because they prayed really hard because all those people who are starving in this world "don't have enough faith" I guess, spew hate towards that don't believe in their religion, etc...A.D.D. kicked in and thought about the comments I have read on the recent school shooting by creationists that made me sick literally:"20 little helpers for god" (I almost vomited) and "this is what happens when God is taken out of schools" (I had a knot in my stomach) and these are the only ones I will put since they are big enough to make people upset. It hurts me knowing creationist and other religious people think like this; and when they want religion and creationism in schools.

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  23. What is to be taught though??? "Evolution by Natural Selection: God Did It! The end. *LUNCH BELL*" Creationism is something to be taught in Church and at home, if any one individual wants to attribute natural glories to the glory of God, power to them. But really, the only thing creationism adds is to doubt the greatest scientific consensus on evolution, for what reason?... Just agreeing with it entirely wouldn't be a problem to the hypothesis... unless you were a young earth creationist, in which case you have no science whatsoever to back up your claims, besides just saying that science could be wrong (ergo: not exactly a class that should be put into schools).

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  24. This is a good question however the science of evolution is taught in schools because it is a proven science and science is completly different from religion. Religion is a not so credible belith that is different in all sections in the world and is a more personal topic rather than science. Science is the study of why things work, how and where. Science is taught because it is prooven fact and should be taught to kids. What if lets say, a child who was taught by his overbearing parents that the universe was created 23 years ago by a crystal meth monster and he is the center of the universe. Science shuts up his awful parents and religion just confuses him more. Also if creationism was taught my, the horrible fights that would break out....Though it is really fun arguing with kids abou why they are wrong....TEACH IT IN SCHOOLS!!

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  25. Should be taught in schools under religious education.
    As a saying I heard goes "Teach kids about Creationism. It's the surest way of producing Atheists". XD.... I don't believe that, I just thought it was funny o.o.
    BTW, I am an Atheist.

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  26. I don't know about where you guys live, but where I'm from creationism used to be taught, as part of a Religion class. The religion class has since been removed from the school system to allow diversity among religions. Evolution is a science which, while not being 100% proven, has been scientifically backed up greatly by supporting evidence. Creationism has not been scientifically supported, and originated from the Bible, therefore teaching a religious aspect to a group of students all portraying different beliefs. If schools were to introduce it as an OPTIONAL class, however, as my high school offered "World Religions", this would be acceptable.

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  27. Evolutionsism is a science. It is a theory that cannot be proven. But it cannot be disproved. It is by far the most likely possibility that anybody has come up with. Creationism is close to the least likely possibility. I am not an expert in all religions. Creationism is contradictory, unreasonable and extremely far fetched. Creationism is a delusion and nothing more. It should not be taught in high schools except for in mythology or in history for what it really is: a mass delusion that has plagued the world for thousands of years. Evolution has been backed by evidence. The only evidence for Creationism is that the bible calls itself the truth, and you cannot reliably prove something based on its own word.

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  28. Because school teaches you facts, And evolution was pieced together with FACTS, while creationism has no evidence to support it

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  29. Public schools are part of the state.
    There is separation of church and state in America.
    To teach creationism is to teach the mythology of a certain religion.
    Therefore,
    To teach creationism is to violate the separation of church and state.

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  30. Well first let me say that there is no science in creation, and in an attempt to degrade evolution it is called a religion by religious people(kind of ironic that it is intended as an insult by them). Secondly, that teacher is a very poor one if those words exited their mouth. That would be the equivalent of saying "You don't have to believe in multiplication but....". It is not a belief, it is a scientific theory. Instead she could have said "This is a very complex theory that goes much deeper than I can touch on, if your preconceptions cause you to disagree learn more about the subject and if you have any well educated and formed thoughts on the matter try to change it so it is more accurate". Evolution is taught because it is a valid scientific theory, and has been proven time and time again. Creationism begins with, and is fully encompassed by religion. The commandments do not belong in a government building, however, individual prayer is allowed. I highly doubt if you prayed in the halls or anywhere and you were allowed to be there that anyone would say anything. This sounds like the fundies lie that they are being discriminated against because they can't impose their beliefs on others and simply make claims like that up.

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  31. Creationism and religion have no data. No accurate observations, no measurements, therefore, creationism is on the same level as a myth. By the way, the creation stories were stolen and plagiarized from much earlier pagan religions. There is not one single original concept in either the old or new testament...it is all borrowed, stolen, and plagiarized from previous pagan religions.

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  32. The schools that we now go to or should I say.. I go to was based off the preferred accountibility as our government (main school supporters) witch was made by our founding fathers witch did not be live in fairy tales.. nor stories .. they be lived in nothing or.. the right of man.. as tho the fellow human would . If our parent s rlly cared should I say ... they would put us in private schools and if they could not afford it then.. ask god. I'm 14 years old btw xD

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  33. Don't mean to be rude but seems you should study more yourself in school because your spelling is horrible..:D

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  34. all religions are man made,the word of god cannot be written in the language of man nor can it be heard by man,'God' for want of a better word is an energy field,which i would have to call consciousness,this energy field is the creative force behind all sound,light and therefore form and structure.it is not self aware,it is not bound by the restrictions of time(it is eternal,always has been always will be) it is not conscious it is consciousness,a high frequency ultra high waveband energy field.this consciousness at its base level is received or conducted by the biological 3 dimensional brain of every living organism(alive or extinct)the brain is a quantum computer and can hold information in 2 or more states at the same time(time does not apply to quantum world)consciousness is the energy that powers the brain so that information can be processed.consciousness has no preference,it has no prejudice it is not concerned about your welfare or well being,it is not sentient,it does not care wether you live or die.it has no morals it has no opinions,it is just energy.all religions are mechanisms that are designed to keep you on your knees,to know you are not worthy,to make you a slave,its time to wake up,you are all asleep.I do not come to bring peace,but a sword,my weapons are my words and all illusion will be cut down and man will be free to be as good as man should be,live as i lived treat people as i treat them,only then can man enter heaven for eternity,or in simpler terms,if we all treat eachother with respect,compassion appreciation and love then we create heaven at the moment we are living in hell,war famine pestilence death,these things have been with us for too long,heaven and hell are not concepts of the afterlife they are consequences of group human behaviour,i am not the son of god ,i never said i was i said we are all sons of god,in better words we are all here due to consciousness we are all connected by it,it is the life which flows through each of us,stop this nonsense of looking for someone to blame or someone to take care of you,look after yourself and others this is how will will grow out of the ridiculousness of religion

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  35. School is for education. Church is for Religion. You don't go to the grocery store to buy a car. Why would you go to school to learn Religion?

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  36. It comes down to creation being simply wrong and evolution being simply correct. They are equal in that some people believe one thing and some believe the other, but they are not equal in that evolution has been criticised and tested and always found to be a good description of reality. Creation, on the other hand, does have predictions: like that there would be evidence in the genetic and geological record of a worldwide flood, or a 6000 year old earth. However the predictions are all contradicted rather than supported by the actual evidence.

    Now. I'm actually doing a survey of Christians (and non-Christians too, if you're not Christian but interested). I've only just started, but the URL is http://goo.gl/forms/aGhxVSG7Li

    It asks all the difficult questions that a Christian website probably wouldn't.

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  37. The class is called SCIENCE. Wanna learn creationism? Go to a catholic school.

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  38. he has a point the reason we teah evelution is because it is in the topic of science and creationism is forcing religion which cant be tought at a public school. its like saying why do public school have bibles but not the karan or the satan bible or any other ancient books (the Septuagin) or the modern books(the book of morman)

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  39. Well its simple really, if you are going to teach creationism you must first believe in a deity of sorts...most popular right now Christianity which requires faith in a higher power. Evolution on the other hand you do not need to believe in it, you must just understand it, through the understanding of evolution it then becomes easy to dismiss a Deity of any kind. The evidence surrounding evolution is tremendous everything from Tiktaalik to the structure of the genome and how closely related we are to other living creatures. Faith and belief of any Deity is based on poor evidence, with that being said anything that can be asserted with poor evidence can be dismissed without proof. People of faith please open your eyes to think and believe in this way is to fail to reason honestly with yourself or care sufficiently for your fellow human beings.

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